I'm the user who made the edit about the 1H/2H weapons.
I had decided to place the damage in 1H mode first to allow better sorting of the list. If you sort the list by damage or speed, your version will display the weapons according to their 2H values. But in this list, you will probably be interested in their 1H mode.
For this reason, I suggest a revert to my version. You could add a footnote about the meaning of the values, if necessary.
Yours, a Pendor fan
Ps. I might create an account some day, to allow for easyer communication
I agree that for the one-handed list, your version makes a degree of sense; however in both the chart and the game, the category of weapon is "two-handed/one-handed," and you had the lower value listed first ("30/35" on a Bastard Sword, for instance, instead of 35/30 as it now reads), indicating that to use the weapon two-handed would actually lower its damage and attack speed. I just reversed the values for clarity.
I also added a blurb near the beginning of the chart to clarify how to read the new values.
Hey, Gregor, I have a question for you. On your page you mentioned a CKO with axes. I would like to know if this actually works. I mean, when you give your knights the Ancient Rune Axe and Dragonspine Axe + shield, will they even switch weapons? Won't they just choose one of them and use all the time (I assume they'll just use Ancient Rune Axe always)?
They'll definitely switch weapons, especially from using throwing to melee. In field situations, most of them will use their Ancient Rune Axes; I've noticed that in siege situations about half of them use Dragonspines. I usually give my sergeants of that order Dragonspines as well to guarantee a good number in close-quarters.
No, it isn't perfect, but I use that order more for flavor than for effectiveness. I typically make that order when I either form the Griffons as well or join either Clarion Call, Phoenix, or Shadow Legion and have access to those units.
Very interesting, thanks. And I think the order with Ancient Rune Axes and Gragonspine Axes + shields cannot be ineffective :)
Did you notice when exactly do they tend to switch weapons? Only on sieges or when they lost their horses in open field battles as well? Or when they are fired upon - maybe that's why they switch not even to Dragonspines but to a shield + 1h they have?
My axe order is all on foot, so it appears to be all on the AI to pick weapons in a given situation. It's total guesswork, honestly. I found a combination that seems to work mostly how I want it. That's about as scientific as I get with my orders :)
I have one CKO where my order sergeants get a shield, one-hand spear, one-hand melee weapon, and a throwing weapon. They seem pretty intuitive when to switch from one to the other, especially when they can use a shield at all times.
Ebony Flamberge has slightly less reach and a lot more speed, so there's more chance of it actually hitting instead of being interrupted due to the enemy being in the minimum range.
If we're talking AI, 1h spear + shield only works when fighting cavalry. I like my orders thematic, not neccessarily godly. That order was based on the idea of Greek hoplites, i.e. "Spartans," since my main character at the time was an archer who also had a War Spear and shield for his main gear. "Tonight we dine in hell," etc. I wanted a challenge, figured using a spear as my main melee weapon would be one. Really fun campaign though. (I did have a Dragonspine Axe I switched to if a siege battle got really annoying).
I gave my sergeants Black Iron Spears. Fighting the Jatu, most of them threw their throwing spears first, then switched to spears to fight the horsemen, then switched to their Ebony Long Swords to fight on foot.
Gorvex wrote: Ebony Flamberge performs better in the hands of the AI iirc
Weren't it you who told me recently that "After all, the initial hit is usually enough to decide the outcome of a duel once we talk about weapons dealing around 40c damage. And who has the longer weapon, usually makes the first swing." ? :D
Gregor von Stahl wrote: Ebony Flamberge has slightly less reach and a lot more speed
I wouldn't say it's slightly shorter: Flamberge has 79% of Zweihander's reach. And Zweihander has 76% of Flamberge's speed. The question is what is better: having an advantage of the always-first hit or often-first hit + greater speed? Taking into consideration that we can improve dmg and speed by higher WP but reach cannot be improved by anything. If not for sieges, honestly I would vote for Zweihander, but because of sieges you're both probably right: Ebony Flamberge is stronger overall.
Gregor von Stahl wrote: I gave my sergeants Black Iron Spears
I find Great Gaflaks to be one of the best 1h spear weapon. Having 146 length it fits perfectly between minimum 140 requirement to being able to stop cavalry charges (if I'm not mistaken) and 150 length when having shield inflicts heavy 35%/35% penalty. And it's the best throwing of course. If only troops were keeping their last throwing/melee weapons for longer instead of just getting rid of them.
@Kravich: it is probably so because the superior swing speed can still land in the first hit faster than the superior reach. Also, if the initial hit is missed/blocked (Flamberge is easier to block with because it's shorter and faster!), then the faster and shorter weapon gets the advantage without a doubt (i.e. the Ebony Flamberge)
And yes, you should pick a universal weapon fit for sieges too, which pushes the balance towards the Ebony Flamberge, forgot to say that.
Combat mechanics on paper and actual test results are two different things, I had to learn it the hard way ;)
Gorvex wrote: @Kravich: it is probably so because the superior swing speed can still land in the first hit faster than the superior reach.
Doesn't seem very logical :) If you have time to prepare your strike then you should always be able to perform the first hit. Though, it's a game and units don't use 100% of their potential, they strike with random delays, otherwise Noldor Runesword would have been unmatched due to its speed - 100% of enemy hits are blocked and then enemy can't even attack when getting constantly attacked himself.
Ughh, okay, I admit that Flamberge is probably stronger, though I like Zweihander more :-( It's long, simple but stylish and shining. And it sounds German :D Reminds me of Landsknecht - powerful mercenaries from another ancient mod of the original M&B I played 10 years ago.
And it's sad that units throw away their last piece of throwing/melee weapons instead of keeping it. It sometimes makes difference. It's not even the hard thing to code, the logic looks pretty simple:
@Kravich: I wasn't talking about absolute differences in terms of reach, only slight ones. So not 2h vs 1h swords, but 2h vs 2h. Where speed might still come out victorious on the first swing amongst 2h swords that are all above 120 reach. After all, the AI can miss and swing too early. The talk was never about comparing 2-handed weapons against 1-handed.
And just for the sake of clarity, I had one-handed weapons in mind with this part, since we were talking about them back then, which don't differ as much in speed as two-handed weapons:
After all, the initial hit is usually enough to decide the outcome of a duel once we talk about weapons dealing around 40c damage. And who has the longer weapon, usually makes the first swing.
Hi, Gregor von Stahl! I've already thanked other admins and I cannot avoid you, of course. Your contribution to this wiki is enormous. The Fists article is just brilliant! :D Well, what I wanted to say is this wiki helped me a lot to explire an amazing PoP universe and I have great respect for all people who contributed to it, especially as much as Ralyks, Gorvex and you. Cheers!
Hi Gregor! My name is Shrev, and I’m the Fandom Wiki Manager for Prophesy of Pendor 3 Wiki. I am here to help the community and be a liaison to full-time Fandom staff. If you ever have a question or issue relating to the wiki, editing, styling, infoboxes, templates, etc., please feel free to contact me on my message wall, or on Discord at Shrev64#0089.
Take a look at the troop trees on this wiki - each major and minor faction, the Knighthood Orders, etc. Each one has a description of how good they are. Check out the final troops of each tree and see which fits your playstyle.
In general, Custom Knighthood Order is the best troops you can easily get, followed by other Knighthood Orders, the Noldor, the three "big minor" factions - Barclay, Mettenheim, Melitine - and the best units of each faction tree beyond. Everyone is good at something, so look up some data and find the ones that fit your style the best.
I'm assuming you have those castles as a vassal of someone, Empire by the names? If you're a monarch, you're in a pretty bad position right now. Get yourself a city before trying anything else; Laria is a good pick based on your location.
yes getting big number of special units are almost impossible, for example getting 50 iron circle and Iceguard rangers is harden than getting 300 any knight , i can write guide how to get 200 Doomguide it will be hard but it is possible :) but special units .....
But you will see them use it. Sure, you wont loot it from them, but thats a weapon you will rather buy on a normal shop rather than searching for those 2 troops that use it and defeat them, and hope they drop it...
You should try to post every troop you find in the file. Imagine a weapon gets a lot of feedback like "holy moly, op weapon", you will also like to know which vassals use it, as you will face them / fight along them
Well, about image, looking at the last two you uploaded today, they are both on the left side, meaning the background isnt black, but ugly (on the brief guide i asked you to place item at the middle and with no items around it). The other thing that should be noted is the font they have
About format... troops that have it should be added as a list, as wikia preformats it (that takes like 3 seconds to make it a list, both visual and with classic editor). An ingame picture should be added, as players do want to see also how the blade looks ingame, this is a good example on how different they look ingame and on the miniature you may load from the item lists (ingame looks way better): http://pop3.wikia.com/wiki/Runed_Bastard_Sword (the one at the bottom), i should actually remove the one with the white background as its worse (you added that one, which is not bad if there is no ingame picture, but if there is, its simply worse)
Like you have examples from the stuff i fixed and polished from you like a week ago. Today i couldnt catch up as i was busier and focused on other content and pages, and the 3.9.1 release, but i will most likely have to change (some more, some less) the 5 weapons you added today...
Like i appreciate the good intentions, but you're just giving me extra work... but at least, you're pressuring me to get these items added and finished on the wikia, so thats good, right?
Both the images from are screenshots from my CKO upgrade page, yeah, probably could be better. I actually am using the "good" font, I guess maybe my screen is distorting? Clicking on one of my pics versus, say, the photo you put on Supreme Asp Armor, mine just looks dimmer.
All three of those "correct" links you just posted are all ones I did originally, lol. I can get the formatting fixed easily. Where do I see which units use which weapon aside from going into the game and clicking on all the troop trees? Like I said, I'm basically going off what's on this wiki and my memory for the initial lists.
So... you were manually checking it? like lol, i appreciate the effort, but its way faster than doing that
Just in case you have trouble finding it, ill make a TLDR
Open item_kinds1.txt with morgh, search for the item, get the number the item has (for example, Zweihander has 1315, that's the item spot)
Now, open troops.txt with any editor, press "control"+"f" (control+b if you are using windows default one), type in: (space)(number of the item you got previously with morgh)(space), and for every finding, its a troop or lord that has this item
You're priotizing adding random pages wrongly (as they dont follow the structure/template of the rest, and without pictures) instead of doing what i asked you to do. So instead of helping me out and removing work, you're adding it, which sucks for me.
Please, either tell me you wont do the achievements thing and that you will focus on doing more pages but properly or help me out with the achievements as I asked 4 days ago... and there's 0 progress on it, and its quite simple actually, but repetitive
Got it. Sorry for having such random edits - I'm basically doing the things I like or like to use and aren't done yet on the wiki. I mostly do these when I have a spare few minutes during the day. Eventually you won't have to correct me, I'm sure.
Search for the item in morghs, obtain its number (Mettenheim Dueling Sword is 1296 for example). That number is going to be very important
Go ingame, go to cheat menu - find item, move on pages until you are in the corresponding range (for this item, would be 1296), search for the item, take it. Search for any companion and recruit it (important to get the real item value (price)), tell him you want to change his equipment. In that screen, search for the item, and place it on the middle column of your inventory (it has 3 columns), and be sure that there is no item surrounding it (on the 8 tiles around it, else that item will ruin the stats picture). Hover over the item (to show its stats) and do a screenshot. Crop the stats from the screenshot and you have your desired stats picture!
I do have a save-game with cheats enabled, a companion and "pimp me up" once (to have money to buy any item) for being faster when i have to do a stats screenshot.
Now, to conclude, you want to know which troops use that item. To do that, go to the game files, open troops.txt and search for " (item number) " (spaces before and after are important). For every find, it'll be a troop that has this item, this works for troops, vassals, companions, etc, even city chests)